19:01.59	*** join/#wowace Cide (n=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)
19:01.59	*** join/#wowace Kilroo (n=Jarentha@cpe-071-076-173-175.triad.res.rr.com)
19:02.13	Cide	is the author of GMail around?
19:03.14	Srosh	~seen grennon
19:03.23	purl	grennon <n=jeramy@user-0cdv8vd.cable.mindspring.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 61d 19h 1m 19s ago, saying: 'and i used it to do some of the work serious buff timers was doing with formatting'.
19:03.24	Fisker-	Grennon hasn't been around for a long time
19:03.24	Fisker-	:(
19:03.40	Xuerian	Aww. =(
19:03.41	Srosh	and he kinda "dropped" GMail as he currently doesn't have the time for it
19:03.47	Cide	Srosh: is someone maintaining it?
19:03.57	Fisker-	look in the commitnotes
19:04.16	Cide	and where can I do that?
19:04.26	Cide	I need to strangle someone
19:04.41	Xuerian	Your code get forked, cide? :)
19:04.41	Srosh	http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=1727.msg65997#msg65997
19:04.49	Cide	"forked"? no
19:05.01	Fisker-	grennon made the last change in the commit so :(
19:05.08	Cide	it's not forked
19:05.12	Cide	it's copied
19:05.16	Codayus	No change to the code though, I think...hm.
19:05.18	Xuerian	Well, you could strangle yourself.
19:05.20	Xuerian	Or a chicken...
19:05.41	Xuerian	Ah well
19:05.48	Xuerian	No time for a good ol' fight at the moment =(
19:05.55	Xuerian	Sorry Cide ^_^
19:05.56	Cide	it's a very good time
19:06.10	Codayus	Looks like the last person to modify the code was...solor?
19:06.21	Xuerian	It is, but I don't have time. Come back tonight. I've got to be in the car in ten minutes or I'll be late :)
19:06.22	Fisker-	yeah but that was only a localization update
19:06.36	Cide	I want that addon off the svn
19:06.54	Fisker-	heh good luck
19:06.59	Fisker-	but talk to KaeltenAway about that
19:07.23	Kinkx	Is it an exact copy?
19:07.24	Codayus	He did a lot of stuff in r19251 I think?
19:07.29	Cide	Kinkx: yes
19:07.45	Cide	down to the letter
19:07.56	Cide	so I'm demanding it be deleted
19:08.05	Kinkx	I prefer CT_Mailmod, since you can alt-click things to add them to the window, trade, mail, auction.. last one I just added myself though :)
19:08.35	Codayus	Cide: Can you give some details on what sections are copied?  Just wondering when/where they got added to GMail.
19:08.37	Kinkx	You should add that imo, auction alt-clicking is nice :)
19:08.37	*** join/#wowace Kiki (i=Fenris@62.193.40.99)
19:08.39	Cide	you're using CT_MailMod regardless, which is why GMail is getting deleted
19:08.51	Cide	Codayus: the list of which things WEREN'T copied is a thousand times shorter
19:09.04	Cide	that weren't*
19:09.11	evl	Kinkx: uhm, alt-click has been in GMail for like ages? :)
19:09.28	Cide	no shit
19:09.30	Kinkx	Really? Didn't work when I tried it, and I was trying hard believe me :)
19:09.32	Cide	it was copied from my mod
19:09.33	*** join/#wowace JY|screen (n=jy@evr91-4-82-242-125-8.fbx.proxad.net)
19:09.39	Cide	which has had it from the start
19:09.43	Kinkx	Maybe some other mod interfered.. shrug
19:09.46	Xuerian	Codayus: It's a direct copy of ct_mm ported to ace. Most of the code is cide's. I believe grennon said so himself
19:09.50	nevcairiel	grennon himself didnt commit for a long time
19:09.57	nevcairiel	prolly some other people hacked it in
19:10.03	Cide	not most of it, all of it
19:10.03	Xuerian	With that I leave :3
19:10.09	Fisker-	grennon comitted on it the 15th december
19:10.13	Codayus	Actually, I thought grennon said he'd coded it from scratch as an excercise?  <shrug>  Been a while though.
19:10.20	CIA-17	03kaelten * r21689 10cgProfiler/ (9 files in 4 dirs): cgProfiler - Initial Import
19:10.21	Cide	Codayus: let me point a few things out
19:10.22	Codayus	I note the alt-click code was commited by solor.
19:10.24	nevcairiel	Fisker-: but he only changed the .toc
19:10.29	Fisker-	yeah
19:10.34	Cide	MAIL_HELP = L["Fill in as many slots as you want. Each item will be sent in a separate mail to the recipient, with the subject you specify, followed by the item's name and count (for example: <Subject> [Gold Bar x10]). The combined postage is shown in the top right. You can alt-click on items in your bags to add them to the list automatically."]
19:10.44	Cide	CT_MAIL_HELP = "Fill in as many slots as you want. Each item will be sent in a separate mail to the recipient, with the subject you specify, followed by the item's name and count (for example: <Subject> [Gold Bar x10]). The combined postage is shown in the top right. You can alt-click on items in your bags to add them to the list automatically.";
19:10.55	Fisker-	has an L in it
19:10.57	Fisker-	:P
19:11.02	evl	and works in many languages
19:11.08	evl	and uses the ace library for lesser overhead
19:11.10	Cide	so does CT_MailMod. your point?
19:11.17	Fisker-	but why are you comparing a string anyways?
19:11.17	Cide	OH MY GOD
19:11.23	Fisker-	If you had written it already i would've copied it too
19:11.30	Cide	evl: that's extremely, extremely false
19:11.38	Cide	Fisker-: that was easy to paste. hold on.
19:11.57	nevcairiel	that phrase got added in 19251 by solor
19:11.58	nevcairiel	blame him
19:12.02	Codayus	Cide: The line you pasted was added by solor.
19:12.07	Codayus	Doh, nevcairiel beat me to it.
19:12.13	Cide	that doesn't matter
19:12.18	evl	uh
19:12.20	Cide	that addon is getting deleted
19:12.24	nevcairiel	just that you dont blame poor grennon :P
19:12.25	evl	good luck with that
19:12.28	Fisker-	i agree
19:12.31	Codayus	Yeah, good luck with that.
19:12.36	Fisker-	He's gonna send the internet police on us :(
19:12.39	Fisker-	brb fbi
19:12.41	Cide	how so? it's my IP
19:12.43	Cide	http://pastey.net/3866
19:12.47	Cide	how's that for copying?
19:12.51	Codayus	Getting it reverted to a version without your copied code...yeah, I can see that.
19:12.57	evl	You're in a community channel talking about IP
19:12.59	SoLoR	ye i made gmail work with 2.0 and added return selected
19:13.00	Codayus	And if it's ALWAYS been always your copied code...then maybe.
19:13.01	evl	Sorry but my retard alarm just went off
19:13.04	SoLoR	notthing more tho
19:13.08	SoLoR	changed some hooks etc
19:13.13	SoLoR	what was needed
19:13.28	Fisker-	don't even care about gmail or ct_mailmod (bulkmail ftw) but this is indeed funny
19:13.35	SoLoR	since grennon said he doesnt hame time for it
19:13.41	SoLoR	*have
19:13.43	Fisker-	infact i might just wipe us on anub for this
19:14.07	Cide	Fisker-: what's funny is the idiocy that is the ace mentality
19:14.11	Mikk	SoLoR: but "return selected" doesn't return items, it seems :<
19:14.13	*** join/#wowace ilifin (i=ilifin@062016181186.customer.alfanett.no)
19:14.16	Fisker-	i have nothing to do with ace
19:14.16	Srosh	uh-oh
19:14.33	Fisker-	so my comments are irrelevant
19:14.34	KaeltenAway	hrm, are we playing taunt the famous author or do I miss somehting?
19:14.42	Fisker-	i think so
19:14.42	evl	I think Grennon is getting sued
19:14.47	Cide	KaeltenAway: delete GMail from the SVN please
19:14.55	Fisker-	He wants GMail deleted cause it's a ripoff of ct_mailmod
19:15.02	Fisker-	or we're getting sued, internet police, brb fbi, etc.
19:15.16	Cide	I haven't said that
19:15.17	Kinkx	Well it is kind of shady to just copy a mod and "converting" it to ace without asking for permission
19:15.21	Cide	I'm simply demanding it be deleted
19:15.37	evl	Yes, repeating that over and over on IRC will do just that
19:15.37	Cide	not shady, it's illegal
19:15.53	Saroz	gogo diff -u
19:16.05	Fisker-	I'm not gonna argue wether or not it's ripped off, if it should be deleted or not
19:16.05	kergoth	its one thing if an addon is converted to ace in the process of rewriting it to actually improve it, ace being incidental, its quite another to just copy the code
19:16.05	Cide	I'm sure kaelten will agree with me even though you don't, evl
19:16.16	Fisker-	I'm only commenting the attitude
19:16.33	KaeltenAway	fun stuff to wake up to in the morning
19:16.38	[dRaCo]	hey guys, I've got a weird problem with ora2
19:16.42	Cide	Fisker-: if you look at other things you'd know I'm normally not this hostile
19:16.43	CIA-17	03kaelten * r21690 10cgProfiler/libs/: cgProfiler - adding libs folder
19:16.48	Cide	but copying my code? no
19:16.55	[dRaCo]	can't set a specific player as player target
19:16.59	Fisker-	i don't see you a lot in here :)
19:17.05	[dRaCo]	it's just him, all other work
19:17.07	Cide	and the fact that you support it makes me sick to my stomach
19:17.09	Amadeo	If someone ripped parts of the code and put them in, and the rest is unique to GMail, I'm not sure the whole addon should be deleted because of it...but if the entire addon is copied, then that's another story
19:17.18	Cide	Amadeo: the entire addon IS copied
19:17.23	Cide	that's the whole point I'm trying to make
19:17.29	Hjalte	[dRaCo]: Does he have special signs in his name?
19:17.33	[dRaCo]	nope
19:17.40	[dRaCo]	his name is Bahgtru
19:17.49	nevcairiel	its not the entire addon, the original code from grennon is his own, only what other people added after he left is copied.
19:18.01	Cide	nevcairiel: can you point out the original code? thank you very much.
19:18.03	nevcairiel	which is most of the stuff today, because it replaced older stuff
19:18.09	Amadeo	Cide: I'm not saying it isn't, but why all of a sudden are you noticing this? GMail has been around a long time now, and I imagine you knew about it and have looked at it before
19:18.11	nevcairiel	but not all
19:18.18	Codayus	Cide:  What you've said so far indicated a recent revision copied some code from CT Mail Mod.  Nothing you've said indicates there's a problem with the mod itself.
19:18.25	Fisker-	never said i supported it btw
19:18.48	*** join/#wowace KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net)
19:18.51	Cide	Fisker-: no, but your attitude certainly doesn't indicate the opposite, does it?
19:18.59	Amadeo	I mean, no matter what happens, it doesn't hurt me, so I don't really care, I'm just curious :)
19:19.00	Mikk	Bah if it's a ripoff to the extent that removing ctmail code makes it non-operational and cide doesn't want ripoffs... rm -rf
19:19.03	Cide	Amadeo: that's irrelevant
19:19.14	kergoth	blaming the actions of one individual on the "ace mentality" is just blanket idiocy, and i can see why fisker was upset by it.
19:19.19	Fisker-	same as your attitude you could say
19:19.20	Codayus	Yep
19:19.43	Codayus	The ace mentality crack was a bit out of line...
19:19.45	[dRaCo]	anything I can do about that?
19:19.55	kergoth	when you decide to be a bit more logical about the situation, maybe people will start giving a shit
19:20.00	Cide	kergoth: yes, that's true. sorry for that
19:20.17	Mikk	oh and find out what tard is copy&pasting code into the ace SVN and spank their fingers :>
19:20.20	Amadeo	Cide: I imagine there's more of a reason for it if you claim it's irrelevant :)
19:20.21	Cide	what I was commenting on was evl's comment
19:20.28	evl	Well seriously
19:20.31	evl	I care about performance
19:20.35	evl	CT_Library is 53k
19:20.44	Cide	evl: can you back up your statement then?
19:20.47	evl	if I can run Gmail without an extra huge ass library I'll do that
19:20.54	Cide	no no
19:20.55	*** join/#wowace chuckg_ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)
19:20.57	kergoth	static memory usage is not a performance problem.
19:21.00	kergoth	for one thing
19:21.05	Cide	let me paste your comment
19:21.12	Cide	<evl> and uses the ace library for lesser overhead
19:21.21	Cide	what you're saying is that using a library is faster than accessing a *global*??????
19:21.50	ZealotOnAStick	Cide - I'm not weighing on either side here (I still use CT_MailMod, as the only CT mod I still used, FYI), but things like "no, but your attitude certainly doesn't indicate the opposite, does it?" is sort of harshly confrontational.  "Either you're with me or you're against me."  
19:21.54	evl	Hey, I'm not expert but most ace replacement addons make my memory usage go down :)
19:21.55	Cide	a global is a table lookup. by putting it in a table you already have your global lookup
19:22.06	Funkeh`	can you clean up the channel a bit ..
19:22.20	Cide	evl: perhaps you should remain quiet and let the people that know how things work do their stuff
19:22.23	Funkeh`	if you wanna argue about what mod is better join #care
19:22.30	kergoth	evl: thats due to the developer coding the addon, not a result of ace itself
19:22.36	KarlThePagan	Cide, there are issues with growing the size of a table... this is probably minimal tho
19:22.44	kergoth	and clearly gmail isnt one of those cases, if its just a copy
19:22.49	Funkeh`	this channel isn't to boast about about the greatness of ace
19:23.04	ckknight	it's not?
19:23.04	Cide	Funkeh`: I'm not arguing about which mod is better. I'm demanding a mod be deleted, as I've said at least 5 times now
19:23.11	Cide	ckknight: prove it.
19:23.14	Amadeo	I'd be more interested in knowing who copied the code and when it was placed within GMail
19:23.17	Cide	give me a diff.
19:23.36	Cide	I quote, "I just got through tearing CT_Mailmod to shreds, putting it back together, and all converted to Ace2. "
19:23.39	nevcairiel	Amadeo: look at the svn diffs, its pretty obvious
19:23.40	Funkeh`	Cide: i have not been reading i have been playing, im guessing the mod is gmail?
19:23.41	Kaelten	Cide: I'm looking at the code right now.
19:23.52	Cide	Kaelten: two samples
19:23.54	Cide	http://pastey.net/3866
19:24.04	ZealotOnAStick	on that note, while you're in channel, are there any differences on CT_MailMod since Update 8 and 9/10?
19:24.08	Amadeo	nevcairiel: I'm too lazy, I just want to experience this as if I were a Jerry Springer audience member
19:24.16	Cide	http://pastey.net/3867
19:24.29	ckknight	Cide, I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Funkeh` 
19:24.34	Cide	ckknight: ah, my bad.
19:24.35	Funkeh`	i don't use ct mods so i am unaware
19:24.48	Cide	in the second one, some code was actually added for returning selected! *gasps in amazement*
19:25.10	evl	Here's the whole diff :)
19:25.11	evl	http://ace.pastey.net/3868
19:25.19	*** join/#wowace zeeg|w` (n=thez@pD9E3688B.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:25.22	Saroz	ehh
19:25.25	pastamancer	Kaelten: heh, look at the oder of the functions, I think I'm on Cide's side.
19:25.27	Saroz	unified diff
19:25.27	Saroz	ffs
19:25.51	Codayus	Kaelten: Glancing at it, appears solor's commits copied code directly.  If you go back to revision um...14580, it looks pretty different.
19:25.54	KarlThePagan	first you need to put both pieces of code thru an obfuscator which normalizes the variable names and THEN diff them
19:26.04	ckknight	yea, don't steal code. That code should be changed to not infringe on Cide's copyright
19:26.08	KarlThePagan	that's how you show "copyright" violation
19:26.15	Cide	until then it should be deleted from the SVN
19:26.15	Necrathex	gief svn login :(
19:26.18	SoLoR	Codayus
19:26.33	SoLoR	gmail = ct_mailmod aced from hm... forever
19:26.35	Cide	and any other place where it might be hosted, for that matter
19:26.35	ckknight	also, the way GMail does its localization is crappy.
19:26.45	Fisker-	done on anub
19:26.58	Saroz	I think we can all agree it's a copy
19:26.58	Srosh	grats Fisker- 
19:26.59	Saroz	right?
19:27.01	Fisker-	hehe
19:27.13	Fisker-	just because i had to come back here and finish things :P
19:27.34	Fisker-	Wasn't to deny your rights or anything, just find it amusing/drama/etc/whatever the way you came in the channel
19:27.43	Funkeh`	i thought GMail was supposed to be a copy of mailmod
19:27.47	Fisker-	so i'm sorry if you felt otherwise :P
19:27.49	Cide	Fisker-: that's fine and all, but where should I turn otherwise?
19:28.01	Cide	Funkeh`: it is. which proves my point
19:28.06	Fisker-	not that you came in here, but just the way you did it
19:28.07	*** join/#wowace Meiun|| (i=asd@h142n1fls31o883.telia.com)
19:28.09	evl	Johnson, Johnson, Johnson & Associates!
19:28.12	Saroz	Funkeh`, well, functionalty, not code
19:28.23	Funkeh`	Cide: and your point? it was done without permission?
19:28.35	Cide	that's one of my points
19:28.38	Saroz	anyway, I don't give a flying fuck, so carry on :p
19:28.39	Funkeh`	ok
19:29.04	*** join/#wowace Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139)
19:29.09	Funkeh`	well if the code was directly ripped then i see why your upset
19:29.13	SoLoR	it was never rewriten from scratch tho :>
19:29.13	Cide	the other is what Saroz mentioned; the structure is copied, not the functionality
19:29.32	Cide	SoLoR: which is why I want it deleted
19:29.40	Stephmw	kergoth: hey, hey, fancy meeting you here :)
19:29.42	Saroz	as I said, I think everyone here can agree it's a copy
19:29.59	Fisker-	what about just reverting it to the revsion before SoLoR got in there?
19:30.01	Saroz	codewise
19:30.07	evl	I thought it was a copy simply because he wanted the same mod without CT_Library etc.?
19:30.13	Fisker-	brb
19:30.18	Cide	evl: that was added two weeks ago
19:30.24	Cide	you're clearly out of the loop
19:30.27	Funkeh`	i suggest you talk to the author and try come to some reasonable agreement
19:30.30	Amadeo	If it's *all* Cide's code, then Grennon or whoever else should have gotten Cide's permission to make the Ace version first
19:30.31	SoLoR	Fisker- i can show you same functions from old ct_mailmod & old gmail...
19:30.36	Cide	Funkeh`: no need. I want it deleted
19:30.50	SoLoR	also all msges are same...
19:31.01	KarlThePagan	I think an issue that needs to be covered here is the nature of the copyright under which our mods are distributed
19:31.08	SoLoR	already in "old" one...
19:31.16	Funkeh`	im on your side, but rip or not rip, its unreasonable to delete someones mod without permision, thats what i think anyway
19:31.23	KarlThePagan	Cide, I have never seen a copyright notice included with your works for one
19:31.39	hugo	is here the author of jump counter ? :P
19:31.45	kenlyric|work	which means they fall under general copyright, just fyi.
19:31.46	Fisker-	well dunno then SoLoR, but deleting it completly is too much imo
19:31.50	Kemayo	KarlThePagan: That would mean that he retains all copyright.
19:31.50	Cide	KarlThePagan: in which case it defaults to 'not distributable without permission, not modifyable, etc.'
19:31.57	Fisker-	just getting it to a version where the "copied" code doesn't exist
19:32.04	*** join/#wowace Kaelten_ (n=kaelten@c-68-63-37-246.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
19:32.06	Kemayo	Well, assuming US / Berne Convention laws.
19:32.07	Fisker-	ofcourse if that's from day one that's a problem
19:32.08	Cide	Fisker-: not at all. it's a copy
19:32.14	Saroz	Fisker-, I wonder if thats not the same as deleting it
19:32.18	Saroz	exactly
19:32.18	kenlyric|work	man, what a day for me to take a long lunch... time to read scrollback!
19:32.19	SoLoR	Fisker- with gmail & ct_mailmod i was learning differences between ace & normal mods thats how similar they are :)
19:32.24	Necrathex	[21-dec 17:40:51] <renchap> <= author of jumpcounter
19:32.44	hugo	~seen renchap
19:33.05	purl	renchap is currently on #wowace. Has said a total of 6 messages. Is idling for 2h 23s, last said: 'html pages with js, that install a keylogger'.
19:33.05	Cide	KarlThePagan: and for the record, I've added a disclaimer to all of the 2.0 versions
19:33.05	renchap	iam here :)
19:33.05	hugo	oh
19:33.05	KarlThePagan	good start
19:33.05	hugo	funny addon man lol :P
19:33.11	*** join/#wowace boone (i=boone@90-228-241-108-no71.tbcn.telia.com)
19:33.22	hugo	renchap its fun when waiting in raid, we need some improve tho ;o
19:33.24	*** join/#wowace Daemona (i=wrcauu@ns20322.ovh.net)
19:33.27	Kaelten_	well gmail's code must be satan
19:33.30	Kaelten_	I opened it and crashed
19:33.33	odt	anyone here know windows oddities?
19:33.41	Cide	Kaelten_: there's your proof! :P
19:33.42	evl	odt: the entire os is an oddity so yes
19:33.45	Kaelten_	lol
19:33.47	KarlThePagan	I would just like to comment that an overabundance of copyright and code ownership paranoia lead to the degredation of the Q3 modding community IMOj
19:33.48	renchap	yup, thats planned
19:33.53	hugo	somethinf to set a channel like say/raid or so, to say each 100th jump, like, "I just jumped 300th time" etc
19:33.53	Saroz	*shrug* delete it and rewrite it, if anyone cares.. what's the freaking problem
19:33.54	renchap	but after my holidays :)
19:33.55	zeeg	Cide, are you going to file a cease and decist and go to court over "GMail"? Are you going to turn CTMod into a for-profit project? I don't get what your copyright would do in this situation, or why it really matters
19:33.55	odt	well, agreed. but i gotta use that thing :P
19:34.09	KarlThePagan	mods which freely shared their improvements made genuine contributions (delagged for example and improved camera)
19:34.14	Fisker-	principle zeeg
19:34.18	Cide	zeeg: nope.
19:34.19	odt	now whenever i launch any program, i get a popup saying "Failed creting instance to IELog"
19:34.19	renchap	and to avoid cheating (space spaming, jump while flying, ...)
19:34.20	hugo	renchap come on :)))) this souldn't be hard :PP its fun
19:34.37	Saroz	clean teh channel!!!
19:34.44	KarlThePagan	I agree that on principle CT_MailMod and Cide should at the very least be given credit
19:34.44	odt	press ok, and the program starts
19:34.51	Necrathex	copyrighted wow addons.. what's the world coming to :(
19:35.01	zeeg	Necrathex, it's like copyrighting linux, but distributing the source :)
19:35.03	Cide	Necrathex: all addons are copyrighted unless stated otherwise. your point?
19:35.04	ckknight	Necrathex, all my stuff is copyrighted
19:35.09	evl	Necrathex: RDX
19:35.10	ckknight	and I wouldn't want anyone to steal my code.
19:35.11	Necrathex	:o
19:35.21	Cide	I would accept credit if it was a copy functionality-wise
19:35.32	Cide	but it's not, so that's out of the question
19:35.35	Codayus	Necrathex: All stuff is copyrighted unless you explicitly say otherwise, depending on your legal jurisdiction.  YMMV.
19:35.38	kenlyric|work	all the stuff you write in this *channel* is copyrighted :)
19:35.48	ckknight	so I do believe that stealing code, even from Cide, is bad and should be righted.
19:35.51	Necrathex	meh, was just trying to make a fun comment :p
19:35.54	Stephmw	Codayus: aye, in some places you can't actually disclaim your copyright
19:36.00	Saroz	I repeat, delete it and rewrite it, if anyone cares.. 
19:36.12	kenlyric|work	oooh, harsh.
19:36.13	*** join/#wowace krka (n=krka@c83-250-235-169.bredband.comhem.se)
19:37.34	zeeg	Stephmw, thats why intellectual copyright is crap :)
19:37.35	Cide	Saroz: sounds excellent!
19:37.35	zeeg	at least over stuff like this
19:37.35	Cide	zeeg: so you're promoting copying others' code without permission?
19:37.35	zeeg	not at all
19:37.35	Xuerian	For the record cide, even though I was hostile to you, I agree about copyright and that it should be deleted ;) I just spoil for fights :3
19:37.35	andremar	ckknight: the lootframe i cartographer needs a closebutton :p
19:37.35	zeeg	I think its wrong
19:37.35	*** join/#wowace GanJa (n=GanJa@c-67-166-91-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
19:37.36	ckknight	andremar, yea, I know
19:37.36	Stephmw	zeeg: the simple solution is just to have a standard template, say CC-with-attrib, bundled by Blizz
19:37.36	Codayus	Mmm, even in the original commit, there's a couple functions pretty clearly copied.  Ouch.  :-)
19:37.36	Saroz	IMO it's unacceptable to just copy CT_MailMod, rename the functions, change some variable names and call it GMail
19:37.37	Saroz	nomatter how you look at it
19:37.52	zeeg	Stephmw, either way, it's still quite useless, if someone wants to copy it they will, you can't stop them. That's the problem that will always exist with open source.
19:37.52	pastamancer	vhaarr: ping
19:37.54	KarlThePagan	I'm pretty sure it's not the entire body of GMail but a few specific functions which need to be purged
19:38.31	Stephmw	zeeg: it exists just as much in closed source, what's your point?
19:38.31	SoLoR	Saroz that was it from start tho... if you look at xml.... or most of old code :<
19:38.31	zeeg	Closed source isn't publicly distributed :)
19:38.31	Cide	KarlThePagan: as of right now, the entire body of GMail definitely needs to be removed
19:38.31	KarlThePagan	you can decompile
19:38.31	SoLoR	its wrong agree
19:38.31	Stephmw	zeeg: so you advocate hiding the problem?
19:38.32	zeeg	KarlThePagan, to an extent, its very limited
19:38.32	SoLoR	but since it was like that from start...
19:38.33	zeeg	Stephmw, I'm not an open source fan myself
19:38.35	Saroz	SoLoR, so IMO, delete it, and if anyone loves it so much, start it from scratch
19:38.42	Saroz	and never look at CT_MailMod's code
19:38.46	Stephmw	zeeg: I was wondering if you were just playing devil's advocate...
19:38.54	kenlyric|work	is gmail simply ctmailmod with Ace bindings?
19:38.57	zeeg	I see its uses, and they're good
19:39.07	zeeg	But going open source, and keeping it copyrighted, I just don't find the idea appealing
19:39.07	Cide	kenlyric|work: I've yet to see much ace code in there, at all
19:39.11	Stephmw	zeeg: open source is good, when used like any other tool, for its intended purpose
19:39.33	zeeg	wow is a bit different since they removed the ability to compile mods, of course
19:39.46	Tem	we never had that ability
19:39.53	zeeg	it was there in early beta or alpha i believe
19:39.54	Cide	we did in alpha/beta
19:40.11	Tem	ah, I didn't know we ever had loadstring with binary read
19:40.16	Stephmw	Cide: btw, my condoleances, code hijacking is a pain to chase up
19:40.31	Tem	because iirc, it was `added` sometime around 1.8ish
19:40.40	CIA-17	03chinkuwaila * r21691 10Cartographer/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Cartographer - updated deDE localizations
19:40.41	Tem	(without the ability to read bytecode)
19:40.53	Necrathex	but it's a grey area tbh, you can get some good coding ideas from others
19:40.55	Tornhoof	the author never spoke up, so i guess it should be removed, since cide is correct with his code assumption
19:40.59	aE|neXter	Does an Ace2 aquivalent to BGTracker exist?
19:41.11	Necrathex	and end up with the same pieces of code for similar problems..
19:41.12	axxo	Cide: just because i'm curouis, would you have as much a problem if it was named 'ctmailmod port' ?
19:41.19	Cide	axxo: yes
19:41.29	axxo	why?
19:41.29	Stephmw	Necrathex: that applies generally to <small snippets> not to whole addons :)
19:41.36	GanJa	Question for the BigWigs people... Where is the BigWigs_ThrottleSync at?
19:41.45	Funkeh`	no such mod
19:41.50	Necrathex	Stephmw: yeah ofc, and looking at the diff it's clearly a direct copy
19:41.57	kenlyric|work	Necrathex, and the courts have pretty much said that's very difficult to tell the difference.
19:42.02	Cide	because the idea that it would lead to a performance increase solely due to using a localization library over global variables makes me want to puke
19:42.16	kenlyric|work	If it's the exact same code through 99% of it, sure, but if it's a few functions? that's a lot harder to prove.
19:42.18	axxo	Cide: that might not have been the reason
19:42.26	Cide	axxo: but that's the result.
19:42.35	*** kick/#wowace [zeeg!n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252] by Tem (Tem)
19:42.36	*** join/#wowace zeeg (n=thez@pD9E3688B.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:42.36	Cide	or effect, if you will
19:42.37	Stephmw	kenlyric|work: then we get into the realm of derived works and who's code was public first
19:42.38	kenlyric|work	well, it could lead to a performance increaase since ctmailmod is now bound up in many other mods one might not need.
19:42.39	Saroz	too much bullshit in this channel atm... Delete the mod and get it over with
19:42.45	*** mode/#wowace [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ
19:42.53	*** mode/#wowace [+b *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net] by Tem
19:42.57	*** join/#wowace cncfanatic1 (n=cncfanat@242.54-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
19:42.58	kenlyric|work	unless I missed a meeting where ctmailmod is no longer part of ctcore.
19:42.59	Cide	kenlyric|work: such as?
19:42.59	Funkeh`	GanJa: or do you mean the function?
19:43.00	*** kick/#wowace [zeeg!n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252] by Tem (Tem)
19:43.03	Fisker-	err Tem
19:43.07	Fisker-	why did you ban all germans?
19:43.09	axxo	i agree it should be removed in its current state
19:43.11	Saroz	evil mask :p
19:43.14	Tornhoof	tem, banning a whole german isp is pretty overkill
19:43.21	sbu	ack :o
19:43.21	Tem	meh fine
19:43.24	axxo	but if proper credit is given, i feel you should let everyone modify your addon
19:43.26	*** join/#wowace Saladin (i=Saladin@084202018043.customer.alfanett.no)
19:43.29	Cide	kenlyric|work: it's not part of CT_Core, and has never been
19:43.42	Cide	well, depending on how you define CT_Core.
19:43.55	Cide	CT_Core used to be a package of the most commonly used mods, but now it's an addon
19:44.07	Codayus	If credit had been given, it'd be a different situation...maybe not different *enough*, but different.  :-)
19:44.14	Cide	Codayus: not different, no
19:44.27	GanJa	Funk: Yes I mean the function I'm trying to look to see exactly what it does. Cuz I have some things that are causing spam in a plugin but the issue is I don't want it throttled to the point it only allows reports... Errrr For example it reports with info. if the reporting info is diff then I want it to go through if it's the same then it needs to throttle but I wanna look at the throttle code
19:44.28	*** mode/#wowace [-b *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net] by Tem
19:44.34	kenlyric|work	right, my apologies, I was wrong. I think I was thinking of something else.
19:44.49	Necrathex	so, if you put a note in the addon "hey i stole so-and-so's code for this" it's okay?
19:44.57	Cide	Necrathex: not in this case
19:45.00	Kinkx	It's sorta like if I were to rename Cartographer to Kartographer, putting my name on it, and giving credit to ckknight
19:45.07	KarlThePagan	unless the owner claims copyright yea
19:45.11	ckknight	Kinkx, hey, no forking.
19:45.15	Kinkx	hehe ^^
19:45.17	Cide	I'd be perfectly fine with it if a function or two was copied due to its tricky nature or something, if credit was given
19:45.18	Saroz	indeed, so what's all the biggering about
19:45.25	ckknight	I retain copyright on my mods to prevent forking
19:45.36	Codayus	Cide: No, it would be different.  If nothing else, you could at least start a fair-use argument, depending on how much code was copied.  <shrug>  Legally, you'd probably end up in the same place, but at least the argument is there.
19:45.42	Necrathex	unless the owner claims copyright? thought you said every code has copyright unless you say it's free to use
19:45.42	ckknight	and I believe we should honor Cide's copyright
19:45.43	*** mode/#wowace [+b *!*@pD9E3688B.dip.t-dialin.net] by Tem
19:45.57	Cide	Codayus: it wouldn't be different, since I say it isn't :)
19:46.04	Necrathex	guess it depends on where you live too :/
19:46.06	Codayus	But yeah, actually, there's some non-trivial functions which were clearly copied without attribution in several revisions...
19:46.23	Cide	the vast majority of functions were directly copied
19:46.23	Stephmw	I see Bartender3 in the files repo, are there any other mods that depend on it I should sample?
19:46.26	Cide	the rest were "merely" modified
19:46.39	Codayus	Cide: Despite the fact that I actually agree with you, your attidude makes me wish I didn't.  :-/
19:47.02	Cide	Codayus: my attitude is tainted by my mood right now
19:47.04	*** join/#wowace Lopen (n=Lopen_@207.74.131.208)
19:47.14	Saroz	Taint is bad, kk
19:47.18	KarlThePagan	kek
19:47.20	KarlThePagan	bur
19:47.21	Funkeh`	don't say taint
19:47.22	kenlyric|work	you know who should be really pissed off?
19:47.24	Funkeh`	that evil word
19:47.25	Stephmw	Codayus: fair-use is another one that isn't universal :( [there's no such thing in the UK for instance]
19:47.26	kenlyric|work	google.
19:47.26	Cide	Codayus: I don't think I would care as much if it was done in a less shady and in a less all-encompassing manner
19:47.35	Kinkx	Codayus - let the man be angry his code got stolen, I bet if some code was stolen from you your attitude wouldn't be much better
19:47.44	KarlThePagan	google is no saint kenlyric|work  ;)
19:47.45	Codayus	Cide: Understandable.  But, mmm, I doubt anyone here is really your enemy.  No need to be confrontational with people who didn't have the slightest thing to do with copying your code.
19:48.00	kenlyric|work	yes, but their registered trademark was stolen!
19:48.18	Cide	Codayus: I've only been hostile with people that have said obviously flawed statements implying that CT_MailMod is somehow less efficient due to not using ace
19:48.19	ckknight	they didn't protect it
19:48.21	KarlThePagan	so was mine
19:48.25	KarlThePagan	Freakin India
19:48.36	KarlThePagan	some day we'll have to sue
19:48.46	Funkeh`	Cide: thats completely dependant on situation, and what mods you use
19:48.50	Saroz	Someone ping me when this discussion reaches a level actual substance
19:48.55	Cide	and the only intentionally hostile statement was towards evl, but it was a generalization and I apologize for that
19:49.04	Cide	Funkeh`: no it isn't, not in this case
19:49.13	Cide	I'm still waiting for it to be removed
19:49.21	kenlyric|work	hell, the only reason I use gmail over ctmailmod is because gmail gets updated with every other mod I use through wau. I'm *lazy*.
19:49.23	Tornhoof	who cares about speed with mailmods?
19:49.28	Funkeh`	Cide: what makes this case special?
19:49.44	Codayus	Tornhoof: Well, if its sufficiently badly coded, it could slow you down when not at a mailbox...
19:49.50	Tornhoof	yes
19:49.54	Codayus	:-)
19:49.55	Tornhoof	we assume thats not the case
19:49.59	Funkeh`	lol
19:50.00	Cide	it's labeled as ace but it's not ace to any reasonable extent
19:51.09	Cide	so any performance gain is simply placebo
19:51.11	ckknight	frankly, I agree, Cide. GMail's code is icky and not what I'd really consider Ace-y
19:51.19	ckknight	it fucks up its localizations and everything
19:51.27	Kaelten	ckknight: ya it needs help
19:51.37	Cide	and a rewrite from scratch
19:52.02	KarlThePagan	hell new project ;)
19:52.09	*** join/#wowace Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)
19:52.15	Funkeh`	ok get the sticks out, whoever pulls the shortest
19:52.17	SoLoR	well i would revert my changes and make it unusable if i would know how exactly and leave rest to grennon :P
19:52.35	Cide	SoLoR: that's not necessary. just delete it and be done with it
19:52.48	Cide	granted, you may do as you wish as long as the relevant pieces of code are removed
19:52.50	SoLoR	thats not up to me since its not my mod...
19:52.55	Codayus	SoLoR: Wouldn't help, grennons revisions aren't any better.  :-)
19:53.04	SoLoR	Codayus i know
19:53.13	ckknight	Cide, or just a removal of any of your code from it
19:53.31	Cide	I'm of the opinion that the mod wouldn't be functional at all if that happened, but yes; that would be sufficient, ckknight 
19:53.43	ckknight	you are probably right, though
19:53.44	KarlThePagan	I think that's the point
19:53.48	Codayus	Heh, it'd be broken.
19:53.50	ckknight	wonder if I could make a mail mod...
19:53.53	KarlThePagan	neuter it and let the author sort it out
19:53.56	Kinkx	Soon we'll have Google people coming in here being angry, should just delete it imo ;P
19:53.57	Codayus	But it'd be a start for someone to fix it later.
19:53.57	ckknight	from scratch
19:54.02	ckknight	with strippers!
19:54.04	Codayus	Deleting from the SVN is clearly wrong...
19:54.05	ckknight	and blackjack!
19:54.06	CIA-17	03kaelten * r21692 10GMail/ (5 files): 
19:54.06	CIA-17	GMail:
19:54.06	CIA-17	- Removed questionable content until a more original implementation can be accomplished.
19:54.06	snurre	http://drdecursive.com/main.htm works with detox?
19:54.19	ckknight	good work, Kaelten 
19:54.26	KarlThePagan	heh
19:54.26	kenlyric|work	in fact, forget the blackjack.
19:54.30	Codayus	Ah, perfect.
19:54.43	Cide	where can I see the code?
19:54.51	KarlThePagan	he removed
19:54.53	ZealotOnAStick	~Bender: Forget the mail mod and blackjack, I'm just going to get some strippers!
19:54.53	kenlyric|work	hmmm.. so when I ran wau gmail is gonna be horked... i better go ditch the directory.
19:54.55	Kaelten	svn.wowace.com/wowace/trunk/GMail
19:54.59	Kaelten	its an empty directory now.
19:55.12	Cide	thanks Kaelten
19:55.24	axxo	maybe put a .txt is there with a shot explaination
19:55.34	axxo	other ppl won't have a clue
19:55.37	Saroz	ok, now that's settled... ehh.. Merry fucking christmas all!
19:55.38	Codayus	That's what SVN logs are for.
19:55.43	Codayus	:-)
19:55.48	Fisker-	well some people suck :)
19:55.54	KarlThePagan	now that that's settled... I'm slapping a big fat GPL on all my code :p
19:55.59	Fisker-	but then again i doubt people would check the text either
19:56.02	Saroz	GPL is brrr
19:56.03	Cide	with that said, I thank those of you that have been reasonable (most people actually after the magnitude of the copy was obvious)
19:56.04	ckknight	KarlThePagan, ew.
19:56.07	Fisker-	freebesd ftw KarlThePagan
19:56.07	ckknight	go with BSD.
19:56.07	Cide	merry christmas
19:56.10	Fisker-	bsd*
19:56.12	Fisker-	yeah
19:56.13	Saroz	http://www.wowace.com/trac/changeset/21692
19:56.15	Codayus	BSD > GPL
19:56.23	KarlThePagan	ckknight, resistance is futile!
19:56.23	Cide	thanks ckknight, kergoth, Saroz, Kaelten, etc
19:56.25	*** part/#wowace Cide (n=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)